ORAL HISTORY ARCHIVE

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Name (Ονοματεπώνυμο): Oztoprak Salih / Οζτοπράκ Σαλίχ
Sex (Φύλο): Male (Άνδρας)
Year of Birth (Έτος Γέννησης): Before (Πριν το) 1960
Place of Birth (Τόπος Γέννησης): Nicosia (Λευκωσία)
Nationality (Ιθαγένεια): Cypriot (Κυπριακή)
Community (Κοινότητα): Turkish-Cypriot (Τουρκοκυπριακή)
Occupation (Επάγγελμα): Private Business Owner (Ιδιοκτήτης Επιχείρησης)
Refugee (Πρόσφυγας): No (Όχι)
Language (Γλώσσα Καταγραφής): English (Αγγλική)
Related to Killed or Enclaved or Missing persons (Σχετίζεται με Σκοτωμένους ή Εγκλωβισμένους ή Αγνοούμενους): Yes (Ναι)
Serving the army in some capacity at the time (Υπηρετούσε στο στρατό με κάποια ιδιότητα κατά την περίοδο εκείνη): No (Όχι)
Lived in Refugee Camp (Έζησε σε Προσφυγικό Καταυλισμό): No (Όχι)

Nikoletta Christodoulou: Salih, are you a refugee?
Salih Oztoprak: I am not a refugee. I am not a refugee.
NC: Do you use this word?
SO: Yes!
NC: Because there were Turkish Cypriots who had to leave -
SO: Yeah, yeah – thousands. Thousands of them left.
NC: Okay. So, um, I would like you to tell me, what do you know about the Cyprus problem? About 1974 and before that.
SO: Okay. Yeah. Starting, ’58 and ’63. Okay, now we are starting.
NC: Yes.
SO: Eh, unfortunately, like everybody. Like everybody those days, I was affected by the nationalist stories. And, uh, we all believed what our only radio station was saying. And we were believing, unfortunately -
NC: Bayrak. The radio station was Bayrak?
SO: Yeah, ’83, in ’58 there was not even Bayrak. In ’63, there was Bayrak. Unfortunately, we heard whatever the nationalist leaders told us. So, I remember, for example, in ’58, people gathering in the street. They were speaking about a Greek attack. What we would do if the Greeks attacked. And I remember they were preparing sticks and knives. Something like that.
NC: And, where, there were, uh…so they believed that they would attack at some point, on a particular date?
SO: Yes, yes. And, those days, the people who were admired were the ones who were doing more against Greeks. And I remember that in 196… – how old was I – it was, actually, before 196…-, in the beginning of ’63. In the beginning of ’63. I remember that a taxi had brought an ill person to the doctor in our neighborhood. The doctor was Turkish, and the patient was Greek Cypriot. In the taxi, they brought him to our doctor. And I was ten years old, I think. Because I had just started to speak a few words in English. So I must have been around 9 or 10, I think. And, while the taxi was waiting for the patient, I tried to make a plan to punch her – to puncture the tyre of the car.
NC: To, like to –
SO: No, no no. To puncture means to take, to empty -
NC: The air out.
SO: Yeah, to take the air out.
NC: It would be deflated.
SO: But, you know if you use a nail, it will be punctured I think. I’m not sure if I’m using the right word in English, but I think it is it. Yeah, yeah. And, I had a quite good idea because I remember I had found a nail and I also thought that if I put the nail lying on the road, it might not work. So, I remember that I was trying to put it vertically on the wheel so that it would work. But I didn’t notice that the driver was indoors [laughs] . And, he saw me. He saw me from the window. Okay, he went out, he said, “what are you doing?” Of course he understood what I was doing. And thank god that he was a very quiet man. He was a very calm man, or maybe, he had to be that way because he was in a Turkish Cypriot town.
NC: He was Greek Cypriot?
SO: Yea, he was Greek Cypriot. And he was speaking, although he couldn’t speak Turkish. I realized that he was asking me what I was doing. And, of course, he didn’t wait for my answer. And he started telling me that that “was not right. You shouldn’t do this. I’m here for a patient,” something like this. And in that moment, I was actually really sorry for this event. And I said sorry to him. Not because I was afraid, I tell you. Since I was in my neighborhood, although I was ten years old, I don’t remember being afraid, actually. But I really felt sorry. When he spoke to me, I was embarrassed and I felt sorry. So. A little story for you. And another one – I’m not sure…
NC: This was because of…
SO: The atmosphere, atmosphere.
NC: Atmosphere.
SO: Because of the atmosphere, unfortunately.
NC: You were in an environment when they were…
SO: Always, yeah, always talking against Greeks. Almost everybody was talking in that way. And, in other ways. On another day, there was a garden, in our neighborhood which had been burnt, actually. Which had been burned before. But there were some trees there still, I remember. Some olive trees. An olive tree remained. And, with my friends again, I remember that we tried to burn it. Actually, we started a fire. Later, we were afraid of the fire, and we telephoned the police station and the…uh, fire officers came and put it out. And later, the police tried to chase us. I think that they had found that we had done it. They just, eh, they just told us not to do that again. This was another story because of the atmosphere. So, this was actually before the events. Before December ’63. But I think it shows how the atmosphere was. That was the mood. And, yeah, our nationalistic feelings were like this.
NC: Was there a particular day that you woke up and you realized that many things were going on and that you were in the middle of something – either in 1963, or ’67?
SO: No, no. There was no such day. Actually, it happened step by step. Step by step. Like we were in a very natural way, developing our psychology. And, of course, there were those sad events in 1963. When we heard battles around us. Some villagers had come to Lefka, they left their villages. Of course later I learned the reasons, how they left and what was the responsibility of our leaders also, of course. But those days, we were only hearing and believing that poor Turks are escaping from mad Greeks. And there were, let us say, refugees coming to Lefka from, for example, Tilirgia. From Tilirgia, Androlikou. Canan [Salih’s wife] had told you that from Linou, they all came. I remember them.
NC: That’s how you met…
SO: Pardon?
NC: Is that how you met Canan?
SO: Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. First they stayed in another place in Lefka. Later, actually, we became neighbors, we were neighbors. And we were also cousins, actually. Not very close, but cousins.
NC: Third cousins?
SO: Not third actually. Let’s say second. Second cousins.
NC: Okay!
SO: Our fathers were cousins.
NC: Okay. But did you know each other from before?
SO: Actually, no, no. But when they came, we started – but again, we were not very sincere, I don’t know why. We were not very sincere. Later, actually, we became friends. So, eh, another story. When I was first took a gun and went to the army. I was eleven years old. I was eleven years old.  In the summertimes - pardon?
NC: Was it common at that age?
SO: Those days, let us say. I remember that, during the summer, during the summer in 195…, 1964, because I was in the first grade of gymnasium and that was – I was 13 years old, yeah. What was I saying? Yeah, I was around 13 years old. And, in the summertime, they sent us to the mountains. To the mountains. And…
NC: It was like a training camp?
SO: Actually, they didn’t even train us much. They didn’t even train us much. I don’t even remember, little training. But they gave us guns and we were in the mountains. And, usually with elders. I remember that we stayed in the mountains. For example, from 12 midnight until 6 in the morning. And when I came back from our first duty, when I came back home, I remember that I went to sleep because when I came, it was around 7 o clock. And when I woke up, it was evening the next day. So my mother told me to continue to sleep because it was nighttime. [laughs] And, one of our friends actually killed a friend of ours.
NC: With a gun?
SO: Accidentally, yeah. They accidentally killed a friend of ours. And I noticed the first lie of our leaders. It was that day. Because our friend killed another friend. And, after two hours, I heard on Bayrak how Greek Cypriots killed a young Turkish student. But we knew that the reality was not like that. Okay. And, after this event, they kicked us out.
NC: Did you try to say something, that wasn’t true?
SO: No, no. I just heard it like that. I thought that they were using information. This is something to be used. I didn’t do anything. Later, I wrote this. Even in my book, I have a book about the Cyprus problem. I used this, I talk about these things. Okay, and even when I graduated from university, I had nationalist ideas. I was a communist as a student. And almost all the leftists, or, let’s put it in another way, in those days, 99% of the peace activists were leftists. So, actually, I was supposed to be a peace activist, but I still had nationalist feelings. Almost until the end of university, around 1974 actually. And in those days, again, the picture was like that. Turkish Cypriots were very poor. Wherever we went, we saw that Greek Cypriots controlled everything. In the airports, in the ports, there were always Greeks. In the big cities, all the fortunes belonged to Greek Cypriots, mainly because of this. And as a young person, in those days, I thought that there was no future for us in Cyprus. So, we had to do something. Because we saw that we didn’t have a future, Turkish Cypriots don’t have a future. So what can we do? What can we do? And I remember that I was seriously thinking of forming an organization to put a bomb somewhere. I even started thinking about where. Coca Cola came to my mind. We can put a bomb in Coca Cola. We can start something so that Turkey will come and save us. So that was, unfortunately, my idea and our ideas in those days. But thank god all students weren’t like that. For example, Talat. You know who he was?
NC: Yes. So you were - you took classes -
SO: Yeah, we were at the same university. And we were at the same hostel. I remember when I had those ideas. [On the other side], there was always Mehmet Ali Talat, his friends, his organization, trying for the unification of Cypriots. They criticized the Turkish side. And one day, I remember, I found him in the hostel. And I told him that he was wrong. What you are doing is not good for Turkish Cypriots, I told him.
NC: You told Talat?
SO: Yes, yeah. Because they were defending the unification of Cyprus. They criticized the Turkish side. Okay. And when I told him that he wasn’t doing good to the Turkish Cypriots, I remember his answer was, “okay! What’s wrong with it? It is for Cypriots,” he said. And I got angrier [laughs]. I was angrier because I didn’t get anything for Turkish Cypriots. And, because of this speech, I was angry with him for saying, this is not for Turkish Cypriots, it is good for Cypriots, it is good for humanity. And when I graduated from university I came back to Cyprus. I entered military service. My nationalist feelings continued. And there was an election, where I voted for the nationalist people. Okay, later I started to think that there might be something wrong and I remember I started to have sympathy toward the CTP (Republican Turkish Party). To CTP. But again, one day, I was really sympathetic to CTP, but thank god Talat was still in university, because he stayed there to do his Masters. And they were together actually. Eh, the new leader of CTP. Or, rightwing leader. He was like this. I started having sympathy to CTP. Because they were very careful about using that language. So this is important. When they used sentences, they tried not to frighten people, who had nationalist ideas. Okay, one day I read a periodical talking about the communist party of Cyprus. It was a Turkish periodical and I noticed they were very respectful toward the communist party of Cyprus. Again, I was very angry. I went, and I remember I spoke with Özker Özgür. You remember who Özker Özgür is?
NC: Yes, yes.
SO: And Özker Özgür of course, being older, he was more calm. I call him Hoja! Since he was a teacher, we call him Hoja! We call teachers Hoja! It’s like, Sir!
NC: It’s more polite.
SO: When we say Hoja, it means, I respect you. Like Sir, let’s say. I say Hoja! What is this? I read in a respectful periodical, talking about the communist party of Cyprus. The only representation of the workers of Cyprus. A Turkish periodical wrote: “what is this?” He didn’t answer in the way Talat had. He said, “Salih, they are far away. They don’t know the reality. So forgive them. The realities are very different. They don’t know. Don’t be afraid.” And I continued to be a CTP member. And in the party, I later learnt all the realities. And nowadays, of course, I am more supportive of unification in Cyprus, more than Talat and Ferdi, Ferdi Sabit Soyer. I feel the Cypriots and I believe in unification. I believe that if we can manage to…uh…
NC: to live together.
SO: Yeah. We can try, okay. And we can do it. We should take some precautions, and a federation is far from this? I am not looking for a federation as an ideal solution. For me, a federation is for Cypriots to live together without thinking of nationalist roots. But, unfortunately, as it starts, we can now use our state-like federation. It is this. And of course, for years – maybe since,’78, I can say, actively working in the party, and in the last 11 years, in bi-communal activities. I am one of the organizers of the bi-communal choir. It was my idea with a Greek Cypriot singer friend, Katie Oikonimidou. She’s an opera singer but nowadays she’s actually a clerk, a governmental clerk. But she also sings opera. Anyway. We started the bi-communal choir and I was in the choir for 7 years, as a singer, and also as an executive committee member. Later, I left. And now I am in the bicommunal peace committee. We recently organized a peace day on the first of September.
NC: Every year?
SO: Yeah, every year. Last year, we organized it for the first time? Yeah. And, if I have the opportunity, I will try to create a bi-communal Latin dance group because I am Latin dance teacher.
NC: Oh, you are?
SO: Yeah. Pardon?
NC: I’m sorry. Do you also teach tango?
S: I teach tango although it’s not my favorite type. I usually work on salsa and cha-cha. So, these are some parts of our story.
NC: Um, okay. Just…so did you, in those days, did you know any Greek Cypriots, as well? Or were you not in touch with any Greek Cypriots?
SO: Actually, as a child I was. Only when I was a child. It was …around…’58, ’68, yeah. I met some friends in Kseros, in Kseros. And for the first time I heard from them … “let our leaders fight, we are human beings, we must live together.” We don’t have problems with Turkish Cypriots. Yeah, but this was very rare, very rare. Because you know we were living in some areas where there were no connections. There were no connections. I remember that even when a lorry was going somewhere there had to be a driver with him. An escort. A civil escort. They couldn’t go alone. And they had to be sure that he didn’t have any relation with the Greeks. Greeks couldn’t come to our villages so there was very little contact. Very little contact and very rarely.
NC: So, in your opinion, is this what created the situation? Was this somewhat intentional?
SO: Definitely.
NC: To disconnect people from the two sides?
SO: Yes.
NC: They tried to impede this nationalist…
SO: Atmosphere. Yeah.
NC: Atmosphere.
SO: Yeah.
NC: You said before that, uh, Turkish Cypriots…
SO: They were going to be attacked…
NC: No, no, no. About jobs. That Turkish Cypriots didn’t have as good jobs as Greek Cypriots. Is this true? Do you feel that that was the case?
SO: Actually, that was the situation. But the reason was not the one our leaders told us. In those days, there was nothing for Turkish Cypriots. They were only soldiers. Everybody was a soldier. They would get a salary, but they weren’t producing things. In the villages where they love to cultivate, okay. They did some. But in the towns, in the cities, there was nothing to produce. Most men were soldiers, and actually, they couldn’t leave. When you became a soldier, they wouldn’t allow you to leave. Not even to leave the country.
NC: Okay.
SO: Even to go abroad. One time, I remember a friend of us shot himself. He shot himself in the leg so he would leave the army and go abroad, something like that. And the ones who went abroad, sometimes, they would make plans. They made plans, and they run away. Whoever run away, you can imagine, they couldn’t enter the country again, of course. So that was difficult. Once you left, you couldn’t come back, even to see your mother and father. We lived many many difficult days.
NC: Were you also caught in the events of 1963? Can you recall something bad? Or there were just small-scale events happening?
SO: Of course, I forgot to tell you. My uncle disappeared with his lorry in 1963. Can you imagine? [laughs] With his lorry, he disappeared. And there was another young man with him. They were transferring something. They disappeared. And his three children and young wife were there. I think I know many same stories. I know many people who disappeared. But some stories happen in the same places.  Somebody came and told the young wife of the man, “look, I know where your husband is.” Sometimes they do this for gossip. But many times for money. For money.
NC: Okay.
SO: They give you money, and I try to get him in touch with you, something like that. So he was definitely killed. Deep inside you know very well that the worst thing is you can’t accept that he has been killed. And you cannot, let’s say women cannot say so. But I can say that a woman cannot go in another direction; she cannot make plans for her future, because she doesn’t know when her husband will come. So, this was worse. Because otherwise she might marry again. But they couldn’t know this.
NC: Would she, if she knew?
SO: Yeah, yeah. And also, if you accept that he is dead. I don’t know, but most probably, you can forget. Because you accepted it. Everything is there so you can accept it. But, when you don’t have any information, you are just waiting. So the scar is there. The scar is there. So, for example, my uncle’s wife and children had many difficulties. And in ’74, the women and children were gathered in a school. They usually did this. I don’t know if it’s good or not. When a fight starts, okay, men fight. And they would take all women and children together so that they can be safe. I don’t know who, but most probably a Greek who was passing by there, because the school was on the way to Kazivera. I’m talking now about 1974. The school is on the way to Morfou. I don’t know if you know the way. From Morfou to Kseros there is a way, and the school is there. So most probably, a guy, one or more, I don’t know, threw a bomb at the women and children.
NC: Where? At the school?
SO: Yeah, they were in the school. And a few of them were killed. One was killed with a child in her arms. And my auntie. I had two aunties there. One was killed and the other became crippled. Under… let us say, she lost her…
NC: Legs?
SO: Legs, yeah. She had her legs but couldn’t use them. And she brought up her three children on a chair. On a wheelchair. When I think of these kinds of things, I can say that I didn’t have too many difficulties.
NC: Knowing that other people were suffering.
SO: Yeah, yeah. And also, in 1974 when the troubles started, it was a pity, I was in Turkey. I had graduated and I was in Turkey those days. Again, I didn’t experience too many difficulties.
NC: You didn’t, because you were…
SO: I myself didn’t, but my family did. And when, for example, I supported the peace movement later, some of my relatives reminded me that a Greek Cypriot tried to take my sister away. In those days, my sister was 19 years old. She was at home, and they told me, I think my mother also told me this story. A soldier, a Greek Cypriot soldier came and he wanted to take my sister away. But my mother didn’t let him, and she started crying. So he went away. He went away, so…
NC: Good!
SO: Pardon?
NC: Which is good.
SO: Which is good, yes. And my relatives who were against the peace movement reminded me. I remember they reminded me of this event, and they told me – “you! You! How can you want to unite with Greeks, to have peace with Greeks, when you know they tried to take your sister away?” And this was my mother’s saddest memory. And there was another one, unfortunately. By the way, it is painful telling you this. There’s another story about a Greek Cypriot. During the same – the same days. Two days before they tried to take my sister away and after 2 days they brought a Greek Cypriot soldier to the yard of the school. Which was our yard also. Because my father was a teacher, we lived in a teacher’s house. And it was just in the yard of the school. And they thought that the yard of the school was a safe place to burn, to burn a Greek Cypriot soldier. And they took him here, and my mother started crying again. And she didn’t let them to do this. And some other people came, they took him away. I was not there and I don’t know what happened to him actually. I don’t know what happened to him. But it was very sad, for Cypriots those days were difficult.
NC: So your family told you all these stories? Though you were in Turkey, they told you stories?
SO: Yeah.
NC: And, in Turkey, when you were there, did you know that [sneezes] – sorry. I’m getting sick, I think. So when you were in Turkey, did you know, were you – [sneezes] um, did you hear that in Cyprus…
SO: This we actually heard. And my fiancée, Canan, who was in Lefka, told me her story. Yeah, we were very much worried about them. We were very sad about their situation. And we would try to get news from them, actually. Yeah, we were just trying to hear about it.
NC: I think I will interrupt the conversation because it’s 4:30 now and I have to run. I have to be at the airport. But we need to continue our conversation. Thank you…